Ted Roe stops in for a few minutes to discuss the AIAA statement on UFOs, NARCAP, pilot encounters, then guest Jack Brewer got interested in the many overlaps between NICAP and intelligence agencies. Then, through the FOIA, various archives, newspaper clippings and so on, it got increasingly interesting, to the point that he wrote about it. Frankly, Jack was surprised how much material he has obtained that suggests the CIA facilitated the birth of NICAP.